Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonLet's assume you could build a first person shooting game, but in real life.
What I am imagining here is a game of lasetag. However, you play it
with a specific objective in mind (get to the end of the woods). If
you are hit too many times by the other players, you fail the
objective. So maybe like a game of paintball, but with lasertag
equipment. If this is not what you are invisioning, then my answers
might not prove helpful.
It sounds more like live action role playing (LARP) with lazer tag equipment
to me.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonWhat would be important to you? Would you be willing to play it outside,
with few props?
I may be willing to play it outside, provided it is a moderate climate.
Few props? Probably not - most likely I would want it in a jungle /
wooded area with lots of places to hide.
I enjoy outside tag games. Props can be nice, but for me warm food (of
reasonable quality) and toilet facilities are far more important to me. And
I'm no longer prepared to camp outside in the winter. Indoor accomidation is
a must for any event more that a day long.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonWanna be able to pick up, or drop weapons when you can find them? Do they
need to look different, or just be more powerful?
If you can get away with it, be able to pick up different guns (that
look and weigh different). If they look the same, you would have to
stop and check out the specs on the gun before you knew what you had
picked up.
I've been to plenty of weekend events when players have the same gun for the
entire game. Lots of UK taggers even own their own equipment so wouldn't
want to randomly swap guns.
I don't think this is a "must have" issue, but if you could provide a
variety of guns it would be a welcome bonus for some players. But, I'd
suggest that any "house guns" are special guns. If most players had single
shot pistol style guns then (larger and heavier) automatic weapons would be
special. You could give each squad a special weapon and get them to decide
who got to use it. If that person got shot then one of their team-mates
could pick up the gun and take over.
You could make a very heavy sentry gun that is mounted on a tripod and is
hard to move. This would make it a great defensive weapon, but pretty
useless as an offensive weapon.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonAs well as health packs and more ammo?
This is where the video gamer in me can rant. Ammo should be
unlimited, but after each magazine or clip or drum or whatever your gun
uses, you should have a re-load break. For a live first person
shooter... maybe 15 seconds for an assault rifle, 30 for a machine gun.
Running out of ammo in a first person shooter is retarted. That is
why I don't play a lot of paintball. What fun is it to only shoot when
you have a target - that is what real life is for. As for health
packs... equally as stupid. There has to be a penalty for getting hit,
and if you can negate that by "picking up" health, there is no reason
to initiate teamwork (i.e. cover me, I am almost dead".
Health packs and ammo can both be problems, but I wouldn't call them stupid.
But how you deal with getting shot and shooting a lot of shots will
drastically alter how your game feels.
If you make it too easy to get healed then people will end up running around
each other shooting. I've seen this and my group calls this "the dance of
death".
On the other hand if you make it too hard to get healed then all the players
will get wiped out and the game will stall.
This is the combat system my group uses:
http://www32.brinkster.com/virtualeclipse/roleplay/larp/combat.htm
Depending on the type of players you want to attract, that sort of system
might be way to complex or not have enough features to interest your
players.
If you run a fairly short game then you don't need to worry about this sort
of issue. Players will be happy to run back and "resurrect" themselves in
Quazar fashion. But if you run a game lasting more that 6 hours people will
get frustrated if they don't enjoy the pace of your game. I can't tell you
what is the exact way to do this, because most players have slightly
different play styles and whatever you do is going to have to be a
comprimise.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonHow about extended play time for making it through a level?
Timed missions are boring - it forces you to "run and gun" rather than
"play tactical". Although, if you are charging people to play, then it
just makes good sense to time the game, and give a bonus for completing
the objective.
I don't like this idea either. It rewards the skilled players and penalise
the newbies.
I'd prefer to see teamwork rewarded. That would encourage a community spirit
and is more likely to make players return.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonWould you be interested in playing if you were one of the bad guys, and
couldn't pick up "power ups"?
Just like any lasertag game, my answer would be YES provided one of two
things. 1.) The "good guys" are my friends, giving me the ability to
humiliate them. 2.) ALL the bad guys are my friends, and we can beat
up on some good guys. But if I came to play all by my lonesome, then I
would want to be a good guy.
In LARP, I've been a player (one of the good guys) and a monster/NPC (one of
the bad guys).
I've enjoyed monstering a lot more when it has been for my regular group. My
regular group (like most of the tagging groups in the UK) has a family
spirit to it, and I've made lots of friends from taggers I've met. You don't
mind monstering if you are doing it for people who are mostly your friends
in real life.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonWhat if it was inside a cave (a real, HUGE cave), complete with strobe
lights, and sound tracks?
I don't think i've ever seen a cave with a strobe light and sound
track. I would prefer to do this either outside (see above), or inside
if it was a city type theme. The only place I ever used to play
paintball was an INDOOR place that was themed like an old west town,
complete with hangman's noose (where the flag to capture was), and 2
story buildings you could climb up on. I think a cave layout would be
too repetitive (i.e. nothing but stalagmites and rocks to hide behind).
Strobe lights would be a very bad move as you have the possibility of
setting of an epileptic fit in someone. I've played a few outdoor games with
sound, but it was sound effects (animal noises - we were supposed to be on a
planet with dangerous wildlife) rather than music.
I've done indoor tag with music, but you get fed up with it very quickly.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonWould it be better if it was inside a building with AC and heat?
In Baltimore (where I am) yes - otherwise, you would only have about 3
months worth of quality playing time, then be snowed in or sweating
bullets when you played. Besides, and indoor enviorment is easier to
manage / control (from a business standpoint).
I've played both indoor tag and outdoor tag and while indoor tag provides
good amenities the play area gets predictable very quickly. From a buisiness
point of view indoor tag is better but from a gameplay point of view a large
site with a variety of terrain is better. My LARP club isn't active at the
moment, but we hire sites like scout camps.
BTW: LARP is live action role playing. We do LARP games with Lazer Tag
sensors, home made guns (plus some other toys and equipment to represent
repair tools).
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonHow far would you travel to play such a game?
With a few folks as exceptions, games like this fictional game,
lasertag and paintball are usually something you do because it is
close. Only once in my 4 or 5 years of playing did I go more than 100
miles from my house to play lasertag. Not many people are going to
make it more than a day trip to play, because the cost is just too
great (travel, hotel etc.)
My group is based in England and we had people travelling half way across
England to get to game areas. The main problem with long distance travel is
that it limits your players (or customers if you are running a business) to
people with cars.
I think my idea tagging site would be somewhere close to a city, but on a
railway line from that city. This would allow you to visit RPG shops in the
city and tempt table-top roleplayers into comming to a game.
However, the distance I'd be prepared to travel is also in proportion to the
game duration. I'm not prepared to travel for 12 hours to play for 1 hour.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonHow long should the games be?
Since there is no one else to tell you any different, let me tell you
MY opinion. All lasertag / paintball games should be timed in direct
relation to the SIZE of the area you are playing. The facility I
worked at for 6+ years ran 15 minute lasertag games. I could walk
around the entire perimiter of the arena in exactally ONE minute
(believe me, I reffed so many games it would boggle your mind). After
about 15 minutes of playing, you had been everywhere there was to go,
and were pretty tired too. So that was just right. However, if this
had been outside, it probably wouldn't have been long enough to get
your money's worth. On the flip side, make the game too LONG, and you
either get bored, or you go broke cause the demand outwieghs the
supply.
How long your games are is something you have to think about when designing
your combat system.
A system that encourages constant fighting would require shorter games, but
a system that includes other elements (such as escape and evasion or
tracking) would have less hectic periods where players could recover their
energy.
The longer your game is the bigger you need to make your site and the more
complecated you need to make your combat system.
For 15 minute games it doesn't make sense to do anything more complex that
Quazar, but for weekend events it could be worth creating a "background"
that brings your players into another world. You could make up a Mad-Max
style post-apocolyptic world and have players fighting to recover food
supplies and/or equipment or make up a sci-fi world and throw players into a
saga against a Star Wars style evil empire.
Quazar style gaming is good for bringing in people who only want to play
once or twice or who just want to shoot people. If you want to bring in
groups like stag then they won't be interested in anything complex
A game that involves more role playing encourages players to invent
characters and to develop them over time. If you want to create a loyal
customer base that returns then this style of play could be more successful.
However, it is a lot harder to get this sort of thing right and the set up
costs will be bigger.
You could try to come up with a system that is in the middle of the two
extremes. That way one off players will understand the rules and regular
players can be given rewards. Even if you don't want to go down the role
playing route at all, you could maybe come up with some other rewards for
regular players (such as a website with a forum for players or occasional
theme events that only regular players get invited to).
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonHow much would you pay to be the good guy? How much would you pay to be one
of the bad guys?
Same price for both - I can't begin to imagine the conflicts you would
encounter running it any other way. Based on my professional
judgement, given that this game is played like I invision it, i'd say
charge 10 to 15 bucks a game.
As a punter, what do I get for my hard earned cash? Like everyone else I
want value for money. You are going to make sure both the "good guys" and
the "bad guys" feel they are getting value for money as you need them both.
If you build a tagging community (or tie into one or more existing ones)
then the good guy/bad guy balence will be taken care of by the community.
But if your games are very short then you may have to charge the bad guys
less or even let them play for free. I know of a comercial fantasy LARP that
used to have monsters play for free *and* also get a game credit after
working for three games.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonWhat if it was a weekend event with camping available?
Unless I got really good at this game, and started to play in
tournements and such, I can't see myself doing this.
This works with LARP tag. There are plenty of groups that have played from
Friday evening to Sunday afternoon in the UK.
However, I don't like camping one bit. I've done events where I need to get
dressed and use a torch to find a portaloo and I've had a few near misses.
I've also had a very uncomfortable night sleeping in a poorly made tent in
the middle of winter. I don't need a luxury hotel, but a roof, running hot
water and cooking facilities make me feel I'm getting value for money. Camp
beds or bunk beds are enough luxury for me.
Post by r***@aol.comPost by Dave LyonI have the equipment to make these things happen. Use your imagination, let
me know what would be cool.
If you DO start something like this, be sure to let me and the other
guy on here know :) Hope this helps, and if you have any questions let
me know. Like I said, I worked at a lasertag place from 1997 to 2003.
I was with this company from day one, and have played probably (no
exaggeration) 3000+ games of lasertag in my life. So I consider myself
kind of an expert in what makes a cool vs. a boring game!
I think you should get in touch with some of the gamers that hang out at 1
Source Lasertag:
http://www.1sourcelasertag.com/
Find some games in your area. Go to short and long games and see what sort
of things player want.
Better still go to some paintball games too and see what sort of things
their players want. You might be able to create a game that has appeal to
both types of players.
I'd invite you along to one of our games, but VE has not been actively
organising LARP games for the last few years. Our regular players have been
spending more time doing tabletop RPG and games like World of Warcraft. A
lot of the other UK tag organisations have also been quiet recently.
I hope things are more active where you are and that you can make some
contacts in the existing tagging community.
--
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Webmaster
Virtual Eclipse Science Fiction Role Playing Club
http://www32.brinkster.com/virtualeclipse/
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/